83 replies to this topic

[Ghostflux]

Unlike Quake, Nexuiz has more open movement, so you're not stuck in a direction in order to maintain speed like Q3. So, if you're moving predictably through the stage, that's your fault.

You can't even maintain speed in Nexuiz, there's little ways to build speed and they do not even give you any momentum. You simply slow down afterwards. By jumping you can't even properly collect those armor chips. So you're forced to maintain a straight trajectory in order to collect them. So your argument is invalid.

[Mouse]

You clearly haven't been playing long, as there are lots of ways to build speed and manage armour collection.

[keefy]

It doesnt matter anywhay as we hve no idea how many each one chip/shard is (I asume what you call a chip is also known as a shard in Quake) i just keep picking them up because to have them is better to not have them.

The only way i could notice any kind speed increase is travelling uphill or ramps but please tell me ther others.

[Ghostflux]

You clearly haven't been playing long, as there are lots of ways to build speed and manage armour collection.

Uphill+Ramps/Stairs is the only method of gaining speed that I know of, and that speed can't even be maintained as far as I know of. Rocket Jumping on the other hand is a good method of gaining height, but not so much for gaining speed in forward or horizontal movement.
You could to some degree also count those boostpads as a method of temporarily gaining speed, but as soon as you land, you've lost that speed as well.

Have I missed anything noteworthy?

[Mouse]

Teleports will set your speed.
You can maintain speed by continuing to jump without any stupidly sharp turns. Turning/strafing in the air is a good way to throw speed out the window, but if you turn on the ground a little, you can actually get around with very minimal speed loss.
You can also pogojump into a small ledge/use steps for a pretty big speed boost. Even landing on the other side of steps and sliding down them seems to boost speed.

There's other stuff, too, I'm sure. The game is pretty new, and people haven't really been playing around with the physics enough.

Edit: Shards currently give 18.5 armour. Large armour pickup is 235~. Max is 470.
Edit2: Max health is also 470. Hagar splash self damage at close range to armour is 31. To health, 47.

This wasn't hard to find, but is a pretty odd way to do things. That explains why we don't have a traditional health representation though.
Edit 3: In retrospect, those are probably texels of the health and armour bar.

[Ghostflux]

I've been messing around with slowely and gradually turning in order to maintain my speed on the ground, unfortunately though it is hardly noticable. Then I went and used a ramp to build my speed, then continued to pogojump in a straight path in order to see if I would maintain speed, this however is not the case.
After this I tested to see if turning in air would result in more speed, but as soon as I landed, all the speed I had built up in air was gone again. As for the gaining speed on downwards slopes, I'm not sure how you "slide", but jumping into a downwards slope isn't really any more useful than using gravity elsewhere.

Every type of gaining speed is momentarily, and you could in practice you can combo several of those methods to get around a little faster, but they do not offer the freedom needed to chase an enemy.

[Mouse]

I'm not losing speed at all after jumps. Every time you land and jump, you should be getting a small boost of speed.
For "sliding" down slopes, hit a ledge/stairs as you land, and you'll slide down them as you pogo. You can do this at an angle, to make it easier.
As for chasing an enemy, with the way the game is designed, everyone dies pretty quick regardless. Dominating the armour is important, sure, but nowhere near as important as it was in Quake. Same with the Strength pickup.

[keefy]

what is pogo?

[Ghostflux]

I'm not losing speed at all after jumps. Every time you land and jump, you should be getting a small boost of speed.
For "sliding" down slopes, hit a ledge/stairs as you land, and you'll slide down them as you pogo. You can do this at an angle, to make it easier.
As for chasing an enemy, with the way the game is designed, everyone dies pretty quick regardless. Dominating the armour is important, sure, but nowhere near as important as it was in Quake. Same with the Strength pickup.

Please make a video?

I'm amazed that our views on speed in this game differ so much. So I'm curious what's the problem here.

[baroque]

Sick of people posting about the speed and movement in Nexuiz when they haven't actually tested it properly. There are no "little" ways to gain speed. Gaining speed is the biggest in-your-face ability, hold jump and you will gain speed whether on level ground or extra velocity up inclines. It's easy and automatic and anybody playing for 2 minutes will understand this. You can chain mortar and rocket jumps off various launch and jump pads for bigger and faster jumps. Even worse are people posting there is no air control. Player movement is no better or worse than Quake or UT, it's simply different but saying it is slow, hard to gain speed, or lacks air control is abosultely false. Quake player movement resulted in abilities unforeseen in the nature it was made. Bunnyhopping, strafe jumping/circle jumping were quirks that remained from unintentional design and defined Quake. Player movement in Nexuiz is mostly intentional and by design. Because it doesn't do what Quake does to maintain certain things is not a drawback.

For the lulz, obtain a super hagar and fire at your feet while jumping backwards.

[Mouse]

This video should be sufficient to demonstrate maintaining speed. It was already made, so I'm posting it here.
Was thinking of doing a "Nexuiz Movement Tutorial" to show off some basic movement tricks since so many people seem to just be completely baffled by the movement somehow.

[keefy]

wow amazing looking map.

Maintaining speed is easy its gianing it thats hard unless there is a ramp.

[Ghostflux]

This video should be sufficient to demonstrate maintaining speed. It was already made, so I'm posting it here.
Was thinking of doing a "Nexuiz Movement Tutorial" to show off some basic movement tricks since so many people seem to just be completely baffled by the movement somehow.

While you've succesfully shown that you can gain speed and maintain it for quite a distance. I am kind of disappointed with the video, it was fairly monotonous and the same route was taken every single round. The only reason why he was able to gain speed was by manipulating one set of ramps and ledges. I wonder is this designed with this in mind, I'm surely going to put some time in finding that out.

Which still makes me doubt about the actual practical use of such routes, sure you might be able to do them in low player or bot servers. But once there's actually people attacking you, how would you manage to survive if you take such a predictable route?

@baroque

Have you even read the responses in this topic?

Nobody was talking about lack of aircontrol, and how can you be sick of people complaining about it when there's barely a community to complain? You're right about one thing, we haven't had time to test all the aspects of the physics system. But in the end first impressions weigh heavy on the decision if a person is going to keep playing the game or not.
So your attitude where "it's so obvious, that a person playing for 2 minutes will understand this" is really bad. Because "obviously" this is not the case at all. And if you're talking about that so called "acceleration" you get from going into a straight path, it's so slow that it's not even noteworthy unless you're going from one edge from the map, to the exact other edge of the map in a straight path, a limited usefulness I would say.

[P1G V3n0m]

And who wants Nexuiz to be a competitive game? I'm pretty sure Illfonic are not going to budge to change core game mechanics, just to appeal to a group that has not even turned an eye to it.

What a crock. Nexuiz is marketed as a competitive game. Taken from the Nexuiz webpage:

Nexuiz is fast paced with extremely competitive game play

Illfonic is gonna make such claims, they had better be prepared for the shit storm from competitive players. The bottom line is that their Nexuiz embraces things that aren't competitive and Illfonic refuses to budge despite much criticism from competitive communities, and even some casual players. Dynamic mutators and the useless hud are severely crippling competitive play.

And it's no secret that the Arena FPS genre is all but dead. Many of the players that would still buy and arena FPS come from Quake and have and a standard about what competitive play should be. That's not to say the game should copy Quake, but other competitive games have the same standard: That gameplay should not be random, and the winner should not be decided by luck. Randomness in networking is unavoidable, so an online game especially should have as little randomness in the gameplay as possible.

Also, the original Nexuiz followed Quake's model for competitive gameplay. But I guess since Illfonic changed everything about the game except for the title and some weapon names, why not change that too? After all, it only makes sense to buy a game that people like and then change everything they liked about it. Ironically, probably the only thing most people didn't care for was the title "Nexuiz", which is even misspelled.

[Mouse]

[media]This video should be sufficient to demonstrate maintaining speed. It was already made, so I'm posting it here.
Was thinking of doing a "Nexuiz Movement Tutorial" to show off some basic movement tricks since so many people seem to just be completely baffled by the movement somehow.

Since you missed it I guess.
The video was not made to show off anything but how broken that map is right now with the central area being so open and easy to move through. Not how amazing someone can be at new Nexuiz.

Most of your issues with movement seem to revolve around the current map selection. Just chill out a bit, the current maplist is mostly small maps designed for consoles.

[Ghostflux]

Since you missed it I guess.
The video was not made to show off anything but how broken that map is right now with the central area being so open and easy to move through. Not how amazing someone can be at new Nexuiz.

Most of your issues with movement seem to revolve around the current map selection. Just chill out a bit, the current maplist is mostly small maps designed for consoles.

You're absolutely right, I admit that movement on bigger maps is probably faster. But do you really think that there's going to be a whole new mappack that is aimed at competitive PC oriented players?

[Mouse]

There's already 3 maps, and when the map tools get released, it doesn't matter what's in the vanilla game.

[P1G V3n0m]

There's already 3 maps, and when the map tools get released, it doesn't matter what's in the vanilla game.

Very good point. The map making community can use tricks in the maps to make the gameplay faster as well, so gaining momentum might not be an issue anymore.

[keefy]

Very good point. The map making community can use tricks in the maps to make the gameplay faster as well, so gaining momentum might not be an issue anymore.

It already depends on the map more than the player.

[Ghostflux]

It already depends on the map more than the player.

Which is exactly why player-controlled momentum gain(which is not as utterly slow as pogojump) would be a useful addition to the game